Ray-Ban and Boiler Room are back at SXSW Festival with an exclusive showcase presented by Kaytranada. Keep your eyes peeled for artist announcements everyday this week.
Toronto trio Badbadnotgood remain something of a curio. Given substantial early leg-ups via stamps of approval from Gilles Peterson and tastemaking vlogger Anthony Fantano, the initial wave of hype was mostly centred around their brilliantly esoteric takes on (then-emergent) electronic producers and hip-hop oldhands. Who were these college kids spinning out frenetic jazz reworks of Nas, Flying Lotus and somehow switching up Gang Starr into Joy Division? And what’s with the bizzaro name?
Conceptual cover bands are far from new, but the combination of technical proficiency belying their years – the liner notes to sophomore album BBNG2 proudly stated “No one above the age of 21 was involved in the making of this album” – and an eagerness to tackle material that was effectively still cooling on the windowsill – to wit, BBNG2 featured two James Blake flips from only months prior – marked them as a novel outlier.
Having floated about for a few years without association, or even really clear definition, once the Odd Future set cottoned on their cards were marked. Early cosigns from Tyler, the Creator developed into collaborations and then even unprompted album call-outs; Earl Sweatshirt, whose eponymous breakout track got a retool BBNG2, returned the favour by featuring the boys on Doris. They tallied further production credits on another one of 2013’s best records in the form of Danny Brown‘s Old, adding a sombre, reflective lilt to comedown closer “Float On“.
Alongside fellow Detroit staple (and former Slum Villager) Elzhi, everyone’s favourite Adderall Admiral pops up with a guest verse on Sour Soul, their fourth record in five years. That alone would be commendable enough – let alone that it’s a collaborative album with none other than Thor Molecules aka Cocaine Biceps aka Ironman aka Tony Stark aka BIG GHOST. When you think about it, Badbadnotgood’s contemporary take on jazz hybrids and the rich, luxurious soul samples Ghostface shows enduring fondness for don’t fall too far from one another. But the polite Canadian jazz heads actually pairing with the towering Wu behemoth? That’s mighty impressive nahmean.
In pleasingly cyclical fashion, the very first airing of joint material with The Champ (an instrumental of “Tone’s Rap“) came in the closing moments of Badbadnotgood’s inaugural Boiler Room performance. Someone had snuck Gilles an acetate, which he cheekily used as an outro. Stacked with material from last year’s III (the first full-length of all-original compositions), the session pays testament to just how far they’ve come, developing from a jam band with supremely good taste into a versatile and complete unit.
Lively as that first bow was, the prim and proper Brownswood Basement will make for a pretty stark contrast to their return, coming almost a year to the day later at our RBxBR006 SXSW throwdown. Between the obvious propensity for teaming up for some impromptu jams alongside Ghostface, you’ve got Kaytranada‘s nebulous network of friends to bank on, and the fact that none of our Ray-Ban flagship broadcasts have been without surprises – basically, anything could happen.
With Ghostface now firmly in the mix, it’s impossible to call Badbadnotgood’s already knotty story will play from here on out. Given all that, we tapped up charismatic drummer Alexander Sowinksi to get a read on whether life is a little clearer from the inside, looking out.
Plus how preparations are going for a biblical onslaught of barbecued fatty sweetmeats in Austin next month, of course.
GABRIEL SZATAN: The setlist for your hometown show looked – plainly – fucking insane. To physically be with Ghostface in the flesh must be a nice pay-off after almost three years of slowly getting there?
ALEXANDER SOWINSKI (BBNG): Oh man absolutely, absolutely. Especially because that was actually the first time we did a full hour-and-a-half with Ghost. It was a stressful process learning all these songs, making sure we can play them as best as possible ourselves, then making last-minute changes on the day with him. He wanted to hear how everything sounded; rehearsals were good enough. But just to get to play some of the tunes from the album [with an audience], alongside all these classics, plus at least a couple that I don’t even know how many times he personally has ever performed – yeah, finally everything just felt so good. It’s been a whirlwind. We’ve learnt so much in the process, it’s been so much fun. It’s all coming full circle. We’re all really happy.
Can you get a read on how he’s reacting to your interpretation of his older material, and the different dynamic that brings? When he sees you backing him on “Nutmeg“, for example: is he smiling, or does he have a poker face about it?
Well, he’s done shows live with Adrian Younge. I can’t speak on their dynamic and their approach, but we try to recreate the vibe of the sample on the record as close as possible. We try to give it a little bit of live flavour by maybe playing it a little bit faster, leaving room to see where it goes. You can feel when it’s in the pocket but we don’t wanna leave it short: if something needs energy, we’ll give it there; if we need one more solo we’ll all look at each other and just go for it and really create something. The only feedback we’re getting from Ghost is, “I might rap on this one verse; I might rap both, we’ll see how it goes.” I think he enjoys it – although it’s hard to tell, looking at the back of his head behind my kit!
We played “Footsteps In The Dark” by The Isley Brothers, and he rapped a verse on that, plus “I Want You Back“. When that kind of stuff happens, working with some of the classic childhood songs that he grew up with…I feel like he has a lot of fun. I definitely saw him smiling for a large part of the set when we were just kicking in and busting out a few songs.
How did Sour Soul actually come together? I can’t imagine the process of collating all the vocal tracks from various contributors was easy.
It goes all the way back to when we played our first full show in Toronto. We went out to get Vietnamese beforehand, and the show booker brought a producer friend along called Frank Dukes; he’s worked for Danny Brown, 50 Cent, and a bunch of different projects. We stayed in touch as we started actually, y’know, tried to be more of a band – when we came through New York for the first time, around the same time Dukes was creating more arrangements and producing live performance, he invited us to go to [key Daptone hub] Dunham Sound Studios.
At that time we’d been talking with Ghostface’s manager, trading a bunch of beats and verses, and floating ideas about a full-length project. Plus, Dukes has been Ghost’s tour DJ, so he knows the man real well. The album started taking shape in March 2012, but everyone started getting busy and it kind of sat around for a while. Then about a year later, we started getting back into it: Dukes reached out to Elzhi; the beat for “Float On” was traded for a Danny verse on the record, which he was super happy to be part of; we met with Lex Records on our first trip to London, did the [JJ DOOM] “Guv’nor” remix, then got to play a show with DOOM and consolidate that further.
The whole thing’s been an up-and-down rollercoaster, as it has since we first started making music!
Did you find yourself bending towards his predilection for Blaxploitation and ‘70s cinema? When you were arranging the instrumentals, were you going in with a knowledge of what beats he likes to go over? Or did you guys meet in the middle of your styles?
Part of the early idea was to almost extend the feeling of when he raps over a classic soul track, or tap into “I Can’t Go To Sleep,” or something like that, but try to do it by being part of the songwriting and not just finding good samples. But then we’re also recording it while inspired by absorbing all these old records, using old microphones and using analogue production; seeing if we could extend Ghost’s repertoire of literally rapping right over songs, and not necessarily songs that had just been flipped into beats. And then as we got into it, we all started showing each other different things and all these different influences came about.
The first half of the record’s actually the first session we did when we were in New York. The second half of the record and the little instrumental interludes were basically done within the past year at our own studio. We’ve had a lot of time to soak in different music that we’ve been discovering and seeing where we can take some of the ideas. There’s tonnes of inspiration there: Italian soundtracks to your classic soul artists, to a little bit more avant-garde psychedelic. We also tried cutting the instrumental around Ghost’s verse to try and fit with the tone of what he’s talking about a bit better; paying close attention, and just exploring what ideas could come out just jamming all in the same room and writing together.
So since starting the record, you’ve not only progressed as musicians but also got a better grip on the fine detail of recording. Do you now approach that studio space as an instrument, in a sense?
Definitely. When we first started recording in New York, we hadn’t really had a chance to work in an analogue setting. When we went there and saw that there’s no computers in the main setup for bouncing your files down to digital, it changed the mentality. It’s not about, “oh we can fix this later, chop up this and that.” The whole experience revolves around basically just using your ears as the number one ingredient to not only write and produce, but get the tones and sounds you’re going for; whether it’s a roomier or closer feel for the drums; tonnes of reverb on the bass cabs, or whatever. So we’ve slowly tried to adapt that more to the way we conceive instrumental stuff ourselves, from the outset.
What I’m trying to say is that experience was so overwhelmingly knowledgeable for us. It used to be super-quick ten hour sessions with lots of post-production to make the tracks sound a bit more deep. Just like: “oh, we got some studio time!” With this, we learned so many new things we always wanted to know. It really shaped the way that we like to record, and how we make music now – just because we fell in love with that process.
Do you feel that you have to contend against an earlier iteration of yourselves in the public eye? It feels as if you guys have cycled through two or three fairly different stages already. Do people still think you’re the kind of guys who are going to be jamming out to “Bugg’n” or slamdancing with Tyler? Is getting people on board with your own material a challenge you welcome?
We’re definitely not as stoked on all our material that we put out at the beginning – you’re starting out, learning and trying to figure stuff as you go. Even on III there are elements we wish could change. But that’s just a progression of working on your craft. A challenge in the past year or so has been trying to figure out how to play these songs that people might not know. When you play a cover, there’s intrigue: “oh I like this melody a lot,” or “hey I like this song!” Since trying to work on the instrumental side of our material, we want to convey the same feeling, or maybe have the same conviction that the songs might have for someone who’s never heard them…
I think we’re in a pretty good place. We’re playing 80-90% original music in the sets now, keeping the live show hype by taking the dynamic and the approach to covers that we’ve taken to our original music. Being at music school really inhibits how much creative power you use, because you’re constantly being handed so many things to play and learn. We’ve observed different records that we’ve fallen in love with over the past little while; trying to carry over different flavours so that we can create an interest or a feeling. But we’ve come a long way since the beginning of having no material and such little experience writing music. It’s an endless process!
I heard a great story from my brother that when he saw you at The Barfly a few years back, you had a few hardcore gamer fans turn out and leave really crestfallen when you didn’t do an all Ocarina of Time set.
[Laughing] I don’t even really remember if I heard anybody telling me that on the day, but I’ve read that a couple of times. We love that music a lot, as do a lot of people, but it was kind of a one-time thing when we were experimenting. There’s all those cool little documentaries like the Red Bull one – [Diggin’ In The Carts] – about the video game music composers. Seeing all of the people from all over the world, what they used and how they wrote and their inspirations: it was just so fucking cool. But yeah, we’re trying not to disappoint anybody. Eventually maybe when we play a five-hour show we’ll get to play every piece of the puzzle!
Despite the fact you’re playing shows in Sydney and Tokyo (where we nearly crossed paths) and with a fourth record under your belt, it still feels you’re semi-jammed in introductory mode. Though, the upside of that is wave after wave of fresh ears.
Absolutely. You’re trying to partake in different scenes all over the world, playing alongside all different kinds of music – from DJ performances to weird sampling craziness to bands to rappers to singers to everything. It feels like everyone has that a little bit; but us more than most, being in this hub. You just gotta keep going; you can’t just do one thing here or there, because if you have an opportunity to create and to explore, that’s what you’ve got to do. Although one opportunity we missed was getting the cab across town to see you guys in Tokyo. [Laughs]
Oh shit, that reminds me! Ghost gave us an incredible 20-minute talk after we rehearsed about his experiences with life and in Wu-Tang: growing up and coming from nothing to having money and the troubles of working within a dynamic project full of conflicting ideas and changes; he was just saying that’s not what it’s about. [Mimics a Staten Island accent] “If you have opportunities and people are resonating with what you’re doing, you gotta stay creative and you gotta stay humble and you gotta stay focused and just keep going.” Letting simple, stupid things disrupt that creative feeling and power that you have will always show and it will cause problems later on. And then you’ll wish that you didn’t let your attitude get one way or let someone take over one thing that bother you and piss you off.
I cannot tell you how envious I am that you got an off-the-cuff 20-minute life seminar from him.
It was fucking super, super cool.
Tricky as it might be, how would you characterise the shifts within hip-hop in the time you’ve been actively involved? I’ve seen a lot of people say 2014 felt like a fallow year for albums and big statements; but then, you’ve got a more open playing field than ever.
I don’t want to say this now and regret it – like, “oh shit, that came out last year and I totally forgot about it” – but I do agree when it comes to full-lengths. 2012/3 felt like a really special time: Nothing Was The Same, channel ORANGE, good kid, m.A.A.D city, Yeezus; so much hyped excitement and depth wrapped in these projects. Frank Dukes actually had two co-productions and one sample flipped for the new Drake, so we’ve had a bit of first-hand experience with some new production techniques, and we love to hear how all these synths we fart around on all the time are used in crazy ways.
It’s always changing, constantly kept fresh with cool collaborations and experimentation. That’s what’s amazing about Soundcloud and DJ sets, giving you a little tidbit of where somewhere might be going without the need for longevity or how much it gets played around. I feel 2015’s definitely going to be a big year for seeing where a lot of young rappers and people who are at the top of the game are going: who’s gonna hold it down and who’s going to be able to create waves and use the different energy that they’ve created. It can always go back to the Dirty South, or pitched-down or sped-up, or whether people are going to start using ‘phat beats’ again. Even whether trappy elements are going to retain value – we shall see. I can’t really speak on the sound of hip-hop definitively, because it’s just unpredictable. It’s such a fun genre in general.
Take just Kendrick for example, and compare “The Blacker The Berry” with “i“: one is really joyous and colourful and the other is dark-as-night and rage-fuelled. They’re worlds apart. Even two tracks from the same superstar released in succession pay testament to that.
Absolutely. It’s a wide spectrum of all these ideas. Kendrick put out one of the most celebrated albums ever, but fast-forward a few years and he’s in a much weirder, more artistic place. I’m super stoked to see where the hell his direction goes now, and how far he takes it. He’ll improve his singing, he’ll keep that great storytelling; but then, shit like the Thundercat jam feels like he’s using new power and resources. “The Blacker The Berry” is so necessary for right now. I appreciate that.
Our SXSW show feels like a really healthy display of that convergence.
Yeah, especially as we’ve been working with Kay a lot too. We gave him some drum breaks for the Kali Uchis remix, so that one was really all him. But he’s come down to do a couple of sessions at our studio; vibing out, creating samples and generally going back and forth on artists we’re listening to. He’s such a fun guy to work with, such a positive presence. He’s the best.
As for the show: we’re so excited to be a part of it. Every year it’s always one of the most crazy things at the whole festival. We’ve never actually been able to be there before, because every time we’ve usually left before just to try and avoid the travel chaos at the end. I don’t know how people pace themselves! This time, I feel we can push the boat out a little bit. [Laughs]
